Mandurah Indoor Sportz

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Mandurah Indoor Sportz

Postby SHANEGREEN » Fri May 04, 2012 5:03 pm

To Peel Pool Association, (PPA)

Have been out of action for some time now with a shoulder operation and have only now had time to study the fixtures booklet and write this letter – Shane Green
This letter is to inform all members that Mandurah Indoor Sportz will be removing 2 tables from the competition.
Have spoken to Gary from Lucky Break and he can accommodate any changes to the fixtures. The reason for the tables being removed, are listed below.
It should be noted that MIS was suggested as a PPA venue in 2009 because of a lack of venues and two spare coin operated tables that had no home – I was also informed by the committee that the PPA were trying to establish their own premises – I suggested we approach the City Council and local councillors about extending the MIS building to accommodate the Pool and Dart Association which I did and after about a year of correspondence with these officials had verbal approval from the CITY and the backing of several councillors as long as the membership numbers stood up and all clubs could agree to any conditions set.
To help fund this project I approached the Australian Poker League (APL) about MIS as a venue for the PPA to host poker as a fundraiser for their building fund. To do this required support from the PPA and approval from the City of Mandurah, and the Department of Racing Gaming & Liquor (DRGL) to be approved as a gaming venue and changes to MIS license conditions, this took considerable time and effort by me with the PPA committee having to also seek approvals from the DRGL and explain where any profits from the gaming nights might be directed. Early 2010 all approvals were met and over the next 18 months the PPA received over $15,000.00 in gross commission, not including weekly raffle monies collected ($50-100 pw). MIS provided a venue every Friday for this PPA fundraising event and after paying commissions to the APL, and wages, made nil profit.
At the PPA 2010 AGM Mandurah Indoor Sportz was voted and approved by the members as your preferred venue and Patron of the Peel Pool Association, also there was to be two more tables purchased to take the number of tables from four to six. Obviously this did not happen and somehow mid 2011 the PPA now had the Lucky Break as their main venue (obviously voted in by the members?) – a purposely built and fantastic venue for pool competitions.
However it seems the PPA wanted the new home of pool – Lucky Break - but still wanted to raise funds from MIS as an approved venue of gaming functions and I still had no official notification as to why / when MIS was demoted as preferred venue and the building fund project had ceased. This is why the letter dated 3rd September 2011 was sent to PPA committee informing the association that their access to MIS as a fundraising venue was under review and as of November 2011 will be allocated to a club that uses and supports Mandurah Indoor Sportz. It’s been reviewed – and the PPA will not have access to Friday fundraisers at MIS for 2012. The Beach Volleyball Club has now taken on the fundraiser, with support from their members they have made the Friday night their own with excellent results. Monies raised will be allocated to assist Mandurah Indoor Sportz players and teams who compete in state and national competitions.
Having read some of PPA website forum – I came across letter from Russ, dated Dec 20, 2011 (It is a real pity the association burnt the sports center so badly. Not only did they lose the sponsorship from management but the APL monies as well.) The reply from the PPA - Hi Russ, not sure what sponsorship you are talking about from the sports centre, you must know something I don't. Its true we lost the APL there but that was mainly because the Association members are not very good at supporting venues. You say the association failed to look after the only venue that was really keeping them in the black, what venue are you talking about there mate?
Well I will tell you - the venue was MANDURAH INDOOR SPORTZ– apart from my own time and effort as mentioned above, to try and supply a home for the PPA, there was over $7000 spent to accommodate the original pool tables this includes, renovations to the building, carpets, power and lighting supplies, shelving, new bar area, approvals from DRGL etc.- The ability to raise income from MIS as a venue that made nil – zero profit from the Poker and gave employment every Friday to one of your long standing members – Keith Carter who instigated the original proposal to MIS of hosting tables for the PPA. Without MIS the PPA would not have raised over $15000 in gross commission and aprox $6000 in raffle monies. I could go on – there is no point.
Why remove two pool tables?
1. 2012- Fixtures PPA - home games for Mandurah Indoor Sportz – Wizards 8 home games, Stingers 9 home games, Misfits 8 home games. For 25 weeks of competitions before finals MIS has 2 tables required x 8 Tuesdays, 4 tables required x 8 Tuesdays - nil tables required x 9 Tuesdays.
This means 2 out of the 4 tables are only required for a total of 32 hours of competition playing time. So out of 365 days
two of the tables will only be used 8 evenings by 4 hours.
2. By removing 2 tables this leaves more room and less congestion for pool players away from the sports courts.
3. The pool area at MIS was only ever intended for 2 tables,
4. As 2 of the 4 tables are hardly ever used – they are a waste of space and taking up valuable room area that is required for the Friday Poker and monthly Saturday Markets – both fundraisers for the Beach volleyball Club.
I would like to thank the PPA committee, members and teams that have supported MIS, I can be contacted on 0419 945 639 if any of the above needs to be clarified – hopefully it can be discussed at PPA’s next meeting which I believe is this Monday the 7th. This letter will be sent to PPA website forum, committee members and team captains of MIS’s three pool teams.
With best intentions,
Shane Green
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Re: Mandurah Indoor Sportz

Postby eccles » Fri May 04, 2012 8:57 pm

ATTENTION MEMBERS...there is not a delegates meeting this Monday 7th May
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Re: Mandurah Indoor Sportz

Postby 8ball » Mon May 07, 2012 1:43 pm

:typo: Hello Erica..when will the next delegates meeting be then?
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Re: Mandurah Indoor Sportz

Postby Mick » Mon May 07, 2012 3:11 pm

8ball wrote::typo: Hello Erica..when will the next delegates meeting be then?


Its in the fixtures Russ.
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Re: Mandurah Indoor Sportz

Postby eccles » Tue May 08, 2012 2:15 pm

Peel Pool Association President and Committee refute majority of statements in original post on this thread...questions and answers regarding this will be received at Delegates Meeting 28th May.
President has been in contact with Shane Green. Two tables have been removed and one team has been relocated for the rest of the season. Also one team has three fixtures they need to be relocated for their home games. Fixtures on website will show changes and a delegate of teams affected will be contacted.
First Division team Misfits have relocated to Lucky Break effective immediately. Please note that all Misfits home games are to be played at Lucky Break!
Second Division team Stingers need to relocate three home games to Lucky Break on 15th May vs Breakers Blue, 19th June vs Breakers Purple and 24th July vs Mongrels.
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Re: Mandurah Indoor Sportz

Postby Marty » Tue May 08, 2012 6:16 pm

Ok I ask

What is the Peel Pool Association President and committee side of the story?
As you have refute the majority of Shane Green statement.

After all there always 2 sides to a story!
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Re: Mandurah Indoor Sportz

Postby eccles » Tue May 08, 2012 6:37 pm

Hi Marty, as mentioned above this will be spoken about at delegates meeting. We dont want some sort of slanging match or whatever on here...there will be questions about diff things and would like to speak on it all in the one hit and if anyone who has read this is interested I have no problem with them turning up to delegates meeting...only one thing, only members can speak.
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Re: Mandurah Indoor Sportz

Postby Marty » Tue May 08, 2012 7:46 pm

Hi Ecces

I think I been to more than my fair share of delegates meeting over the year when I did play.
And as you put down i can't say anything anyway.
I won't be there.(more than likely) :rotfl:

But can I ask that what comes out of this meeting (good or bad) be put up on the forum for all present, past and future members to see?

This is only a request!
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Re: Mandurah Indoor Sportz

Postby KJHiggins » Wed May 16, 2012 12:18 pm

I was annoyed to hear last night that Shane Green of MIS will not be able to answer any questions at the delegates metting on the 28th May as he is not a member. I know that this is a Constitutional matter, but feel that this should be overlooked for this meeting and the constitution be change to allow someone to speak in special circumstances.

Why is he not a member? Doesn't the $500 ($750 if you include Misfits) he paid for the teams give him membership? If not, why not? As we need venues so we can play. Without players/venues we have no pool league.

For openness and transparency I stongly believe that Shane's voice should be heard at the meeting.

Many thanks

Kevin Higgins
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Re: Mandurah Indoor Sportz

Postby Marty » Wed May 16, 2012 6:03 pm

I can't comment on what happen these days as i been out of the association for a few years now.

BUT in the time I was in the association and on committee the publicans (Venue owners/Mangers) were always welcome to speck at delegates meetings, even if there not players (members).

There was even one publican who use to come to the delegates meeting as the team delegate. (he wasn't a player).

At another venue there was someones wife that use to sign the book as a delegate (also not a member).
so the venue which had 2 teams wouldn't get fined!
This one was along time ago. Before Erica or Mick joined the committee. I not sure if Erica was even a member.
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Re: Mandurah Indoor Sportz

Postby eccles » Wed May 16, 2012 7:17 pm

KJHiggins wrote:I was annoyed to hear last night that Shane Green of MIS will not be able to answer any questions at the delegates metting on the 28th May as he is not a member. I know that this is a Constitutional matter, but feel that this should be overlooked for this meeting and the constitution be change to allow someone to speak in special circumstances.

Why is he not a member? Doesn't the $500 ($750 if you include Misfits) he paid for the teams give him membership? If not, why not? As we need venues so we can play. Without players/venues we have no pool league.

For openness and transparency I stongly believe that Shane's voice should be heard at the meeting.

Many thanks

Kevin Higgins


Hi Kevin,
No Committee member that I am aware of has been approached in regards to Shane Green speaking at the Delegates Meeting!!!! So here I am annoyed that your annoyed for something the Committee wasn't aware of...I thought it was all said at the very beginning of this thread!
In regards to Shane Green not being a member, every member of the Association fills in a registration and code of conduct form at start of season and pays a membership fee, at this moment he is not a member.
Sands Tavern, Premier Hotel, RSL and Madora Bay Tavern do not have their venue owners, publicans as members of Peel Pool Association. In regards to team fees, it is up to the team to organise their fees, whether it be that the members of the team pays fees or an arrangement that the team has made with their venue or a sponsor, is up to the actual team. To quote specifically that Shane Green has paid that amount I think you should investigate that one within your team and other teams that have/had MIS as their venue for yourself.
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REPLY

Postby SHANEGREEN » Thu May 17, 2012 10:46 am

In reply to the PPA President and committee refuting the majority of statements made by me in letter sent and posting on the forum. I stand by every statement I made as the truth and I suppose refute means the PPA is accusing me of lying. I did make an error with some of the income, I guessed the PPA gross earnings for the Friday night hosted by MIS at $15,000.00 the gross figure was actually $24,673.00 These figures are easily accessible as the APL, MIS and the PPA must keep detailed records for a minimum of 2 years that must be provided when or if requested by the DRGL .
The following paragraph is a summary of records sent to me by the APL .The PPA should have the exact same figures recorded. "The total number of Friday night Poker fundraising hosted by MIS for the PPA was 70 held over a 17 month period from the 4th June 2010 to 28th October 2011 (excluding Easter Friday and 2 Fridays over Christmas and the New Year) the gross earnings from the Friday night Poker nights was $24,673.00 paid in cash - less $11,200.00($160 per week) paid in permit fees to DRGL leaves a net profit of $13,473.00 cash payments made to the PPA".
As for raffle money raised there was a minimum of $50.00 profit each week. 70 x $50 = $3,500.00 that takes the total profit to $16,973.00 the only other expense to the PPA to my knowledge were incentive payments made back to its own members for attending and supervising the proceedings as required by the DRGL.
I have been the Secretary / Treasurer of the WA Indoor Beach Volleyball Federation since 2003 a non- profit organization that has over 480 members competing in our state competition from 8 different venues with a total player number exceeding 8000. I could of offered the Friday night to them and or the Mandurah Beach Volleyballers in 2010 but I didn’t, it was offered to the PPA who initially took some convincing as to the benefits. There were no hidden agendas by MIS. The money raised by the PPA was to be used for a future building fund. As the treasurer for the Federation I supply a detailed finance report every 12 months including a budget for the next years operation all sponsors contributions are highlighted and members are asked to support those sponsors.
Again, I stand by every statement made by me in the last letter as the truth, furthermore I find it insulting that the PPA committee would deny any involvement from MIS as a sponsor to the PPA as posted on the forum. There was no mention of MIS’s sponsorship or monies raised in the Presidents report or for that matter to my knowledge in any AGM minutes. I have had numerous members telling me that they had no idea of MIS’s fundraising efforts for the PPA. I have now been accused by the president and committee as making false statements, basically lying. I hope the committee list exactly what it is they think I am making false statements about at their next meeting. Why does the PPA deny that MIS was a valuable contributor to the PPA? Have figures and financial reports highlighting sponsors contributions been shown to its members? Who were the PPA’s major financial contributors for 2010 /11 and if MIS / APL is one of them why is this not mentioned in the AGM minutes?
Mandurah Indoor Sportz, will no longer have any affiliation with the PPA and request that all 4 pool tables be removed from the premise. (MIS has its own competition tables ready to be installed). I am sure the PPA will find a home for the tables at one of the local clubs or hotels that may be a cash flow with the coin operated tables and possibility of new teams.
To conclude MIS management and staff has given the PPA its upmost support, that now ends with this letter. If after reading this letter Wizards or any team that wants to stay at MIS, we will continue to support them and assist as best we can to finish out the 2012 season. I have been told that 2 -3 players may make the state team – MIS will also provide assistance for these players as we do for all our representative players.
I am happy to answer any questions from any present or past PPA member.
With best intentions,
Shane Green
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Re: Mandurah Indoor Sportz

Postby KJHiggins » Thu May 17, 2012 12:29 pm

Your right Erica I don't know if MIS pays our $250, but as I haven't been asked to pay it, so I can only assume (danderous thing to do!) that the MIS paid for it. If I'm wrong, then can the association tell me who the kind benefactor was?
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Re: REPLY

Postby Marty » Thu May 17, 2012 2:25 pm

Hi Shane

Thank you for posting your reply.
Your reply seems to be very open and honest.

As I said before there always 2 sides to a story every story!
We are only hearing yours at this time. (Thank you)

It looks like peel pool has lost another venue (from what you have said I can't blame you at all!).
That's sad for Peel Pool future.

I no longer a member of peel pool but a spent about 10 years (i never counted) on committee.
So I have put in a lot of time and effort too.

I wish you the best in your business.
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Re: Mandurah Indoor Sportz

Postby John B » Thu May 17, 2012 6:33 pm

This post is becoming topical and interesting in the way it will fathom out.

Firstly we have a prominent business owner, who opens his doors to the ppa, and for certain deliberations along the way, things have happened. He then puts his reputation on the line by coming to a public forum and lays down certain statements. By doing this, he is open to all critics that comes his way. If he is wrong with what he says in his post, word will get around Mandurah and people within his business circle and that could hurt his business. This is something he would probably would not like to see.

Secondly, PPA comes back and refutes what Shane has said, but does not say what, and where they refute in the post. Instead they would discuss it at a delegates meeting which at this point I do not know if Shane has been ask to attend. In all fairness, I believe he should be ask because to the PPA members , it is the only way to get both sides of the story at the one time and also proof that each party can bring to the table and also allows members to ask questions from both parties. If Shane is not allowed to do this because he is not a member of PPA, it isn't a problem for the committee to hold a special meeting to pass for Shane to be able to attend.

Thirdly, Shane posted a reply above and in all fairness has open his hand and produce proof at to what he has been saying, which PPA hasn't.

Fourthly, now the question has to be asked, that if he Shane can produce official documentation from the APL which is also on offered to the PPA, then why is PPA refuting what he is saying. Also another question is asked that Shane brought up as to why a finance report has not been put up. I know for a fact that with an Association like ours it does not take six months to have our finances audited and a report put up. As it was brought up, the PPA yearly finance report will show monies that were brought in and it should match the same as the APL. If not then we have a serious problem on our hand. Also now that a new season has started and new monies are coming in , last year finance report should have been tabled and posted for all to see and not have to go to the treasurers house to view the report. Six months is heaps of time to post a report. The last thing I see is that someone holding an offcial APL monies report and they can be obtained by anyone, give a call to the Corporate Commission asking for a full audit report of the PPA to prove a point. IMHO I would think that last years audited financial report be posted here way before the delegates meeting, so everything is in the open and nothing can be miscontrued. :typo:
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Re: Mandurah Indoor Sportz

Postby Mick » Thu May 17, 2012 7:32 pm

John B wrote:Fourthly, now the question has to be asked, that if he Shane can produce official documentation from the APL which is also on offered to the PPA, then why is PPA refuting what he is saying. Also another question is asked that Shane brought up as to why a finance report has not been put up. I know for a fact that with an Association like ours it does not take six months to have our finances audited and a report put up. As it was brought up, the PPA yearly finance report will show monies that were brought in and it should match the same as the APL. If not then we have a serious problem on our hand. Also now that a new season has started and new monies are coming in , last year finance report should have been tabled and posted for all to see and not have to go to the treasurers house to view the report. Six months is heaps of time to post a report. The last thing I see is that someone holding an offcial APL monies report and they can be obtained by anyone, give a call to the Corporate Commission asking for a full audit report of the PPA to prove a point. IMHO I would think that last years audited financial report be posted here way before the delegates meeting, so everything is in the open and nothing can be miscontrued. :typo:


John, if you read the minutes from last years AGM you will see that a financial report was presented. In fact at the time many members commented that it was the most detailed they had seen. If you had of attended that meeting you would have been able to see that for yourself but like a few in this Association it is easier to sit on the back benches and just criticise. Yes they have not been audited yet, my fault and totally my fault however I stand by everything that I do for this Association. The reason I have not posted that report on here is because I dont think it is in the best interests of the Association. If you would like to have a look at it John I will email you a copy to save you the cost of fuel. If you would like to have a look at receipt books etc then you will have to wear that fuel cost.
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Re: Mandurah Indoor Sportz

Postby John B » Thu May 17, 2012 8:20 pm

Thanks for that reply Mick. I would have loved to attend the AGM , but I left my travelling overseas till the end of the season, like I do every year. So you have my apologies for that.

Now you know that a audit report is worth more than a non audit report. You may stand by everything, but in the end only an audit report willo be taken noticed off. No-one runs businesses on heresay reports...they can't afford to. That is why independant auditors are brought in so there is no hanky panky going on. If you have a receipt for every bit of monies going thru the books, there should be no problems sending off to the auditors and then posting them. My next question is WHY is it not in the best interest of the Association to post the report...is there something wrong that this can't be done....Hmmmm.

You said once on here that you would email me past copies of AGM's and never did, even though the Constition says that I, as a member are allowed to have these cpoies. I asked three times and you refuse to do what is constitutinal my right. You refuse my right to these and you never told me why after you said you would. What makes me think that I am going to get a emailed financial report when I can't get a report that is covered by the Constitution and is there for all members and cannot be refused....but you refused me......I suppose a question could be is what are you hiding if you can't audit a financial year and post it, and give someone past AGM minutes.

Your problem isn't with me, read above ...that seems to be where the problem is....but since I have stuck my head out and posted,...I assume now that history is going to repeat itself and you and others are going to treat me the way you did last time...
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Re: Mandurah Indoor Sportz

Postby Mick » Thu May 17, 2012 8:47 pm

John B wrote:You said once on here that you would email me past copies of AGM's and never did, even though the Constition says that I, as a member are allowed to have these cpoies. I asked three times and you refuse to do what is constitutinal my right. You refuse my right to these and you never told me why after you said you would. What makes me think that I am going to get a emailed financial report when I can't get a report that is covered by the Constitution and is there for all members and cannot be refused....but you refused me......I suppose a question could be is what are you hiding if you can't audit a financial year and post it, and give someone past AGM minutes.



I do not remember your reference to the past AGM's though I think you will find copies on them on here if you look. I have emailed the report that was with last years AGM it to you, that is assuming the email address you have for here is legit. There is nothing to hide John, well except my laziness at times and the fact that I would like to have a life that isn't full of all this shit. Sorry that was uncalled for but so true with how I feel at the moment.
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Re: Mandurah Indoor Sportz

Postby John B » Thu May 17, 2012 9:05 pm

Yes! my email is legit....thanks for that statement....you never had a problem with it yet......thank you for the financial report that just coame thru...a quick look tells me that it is not showing any income from raffles and the APL night....am I missing something?

Only one past AGM was on here which we ask for and you put it up......then Russell found something that was wrong on it and questions were asked as the committee had done something illegal. Thats when the sh*t hit the fan and you guys clammed up faster than pearl shell in breeding session.

"II would like to have a life that isn't full of all this shit. Sorry that was uncalled for but so true with how I feel at the moment.....Maybe if everything is open and on the level, then you would not have this problem......there are some people on here who care about the PPA and how it is run. Nobody want to see the PPA go down like that Victorian Soccer/Football club because the audit didn't go there way
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Re: Mandurah Indoor Sportz

Postby Mick » Thu May 17, 2012 9:22 pm

John B wrote:Yes! my email is legit....thanks for that statement....you never had a problem with it yet......thank you for the financial report that just coame thru...a quick look tells me that it is not showing any income from raffles and the APL night....am I missing something?

Only one past AGM was on here which we ask for and you put it up......then Russell found something that was wrong on it and questions were asked as the committee had done something illegal. Thats when the sh*t hit the fan and you guys clammed up faster than pearl shell in breeding session.

"II would like to have a life that isn't full of all this shit. Sorry that was uncalled for but so true with how I feel at the moment.....Maybe if everything is open and on the level, then you would not have this problem......there are some people on here who care about the PPA and how it is run. Nobody want to see the PPA go down like that Victorian Soccer/Football club because the audit didn't go there way


Yes you are missing something. It is listed as Australian Poker League Nights, APL is an abbreviation. You will find nothing for raffles except for a couple that Peter Raines did by memory, the ones that Greenie is referring to went towards team fees etc as far as I know. They did not come directly to the Association.

You will have to refresh my memory on the bit with Russell, though another thread might be the go as this is off topic.

And everything is above board John. I do the best that I can. I am not an accountant, just a love of the sport. As I said I am lazy at times with things but as I have said before if anybody wants to check out the books they are more than welcome to, whenever they want to. I have nothing to hide.
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Re: Mandurah Indoor Sportz

Postby eccles » Thu May 17, 2012 10:28 pm

So here we go...exactly what I was trying to avoid by having a meeting to address this thread....backwards and forwards bits and pieces...how bout everyone who is reading this thread, by the look of it they far out number the ones posting, and the ones posting, get ya questions on paper, bring them to the meeting and let's discuss the differences of opinion...and Shane you are more than welcome to attend! Not once have you approached myself or any Committee member to say that you wish to speak at Delegates Meeting. The original post stated that you will be removing 2 tables from the competition and your reasoning. My preference is not to post on here and wait for an avalanche of different questions, but to deal with all at the one time with no misinterpretations of how one may read into what one writes. If that frustrates any readers on here well stiff sh#% my time is more important than constantly checking for the next question.
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Re: Mandurah Indoor Sportz

Postby Marty » Fri May 18, 2012 12:12 pm

To be fair Erica
I have no problem with them turning up to delegates meeting...only one thing, only members can speak.

You have stated that useless Shane a member he can't speck.
You are refute most of what Shane says.
Your going to address this at a Delegates meeting. That's fair!

Whats NOT fair your not giving Shane any right of reply or any way answer what you got to say.

The feedback I getting from members (current) is it appears Peel Pool committee is hiding something as there not going Shane a chance to talk!

I not make any allegations.

But if you want this to stop on the forum all you have to do is let Shane talk/reply at the meeting.
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Re: Mandurah Indoor Sportz

Postby eccles » Fri May 18, 2012 2:04 pm

eccles wrote: Shane you are more than welcome to attend!

There is the invite, got absolutely nothing to hide...everything that has been done is for Peel Pool not any other reason and if ppl believe that after the meeting...I have no problems with stepping away at all!!!
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Re: Mandurah Indoor Sportz

Postby Marty » Fri May 18, 2012 7:35 pm

Please don't get me wrong as i not saying there anything underhanded going on!

But I will ask so very thing is clear and open.
Will Shane be alowed to speck at the meeting on the subject of that has arrived here on the forum?
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Re: Mandurah Indoor Sportz

Postby Striker » Sun May 20, 2012 9:09 pm

maybe all the documentation regarding this issue should be made available for all members to see on monday night.being lazy is no excuse. when it comes to money , clear readable figures must be available for all members to see. auditors should have all this prepared.it sounds like the building fund must have a heap in it. better have those figures available as well.looks like shane has been cut pretty bad. bloody hands on the ppa will not look good if the figures dont add up. cant wait to read the next chapter. maybe wilbur smith should read this, could be a future classic.

ps. hey marty, ever used spellcheck? helps you not make such strange statements bud. just a thought :D
Striker
 
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Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:32 am

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